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Francesca (00:30):
Hi Gerson, thanks for joining me. I’m eager to discuss audience engagement. How are you?
Gerson (00:39):
Fine, thank you for having me, Francesca.
Francesca (00:42):
I’m excited to hear about your innovative work at EenVandaag. We’ll delve into engagement, a topic you’ve extensively worked on. Could you briefly introduce yourself and your role?
Gerson (01:08):
I’m Gerson Veenstra, from the Netherlands. I work at EenVandaag, a Dutch news program on Afret Tros, reaching 800,000-1,000,000 viewers daily. We also have a radio show and online presence. I manage the online and interaction teams (established two years ago).
Francesca (01:36):
I’ve heard much about your interaction team. Tell me about it.
Gerson (01:44):
About two years ago, we explored audience engagement, conducting research (including a student project). We started small, simply asking viewers questions about news topics. We were surprised by the volume and nature of the questions—many were basic, clarifying terms and concepts. We realized we needed to better explain terminology and context within our news coverage. This small project led to discussions with the NPO (Dutch public broadcasters), who also sought increased audience engagement. This resulted in the creation of our interaction team (seven editors, starting March 2023).
Francesca (05:28):
That’s fascinating! You essentially uncovered underlying assumptions, which evolved into a full chat service.
Gerson (05:45):
We learned by doing. We experimented and discovered more than anticipated.
Francesca (05:59):
It’s easy to fear new initiatives. Your team’s culture embraced failure, fostering a “what’s the worst that could happen?” attitude.
Gerson (06:20):
It felt like returning to the early days of social media (around 2007 with Hyves). We had direct one-on-one contact with our audience then, which changed things. But as social media evolved, it became less interactive. This initiative felt like rediscovering that early, valuable engagement.
Francesca (08:43):
We often confuse social media and news, leading to differing perspectives on audience engagement. What’s your definition?
Gerson (09:20):
There isn’t one definition. For me, it’s a human-centric approach. Consider your audience’s perspective, their questions, the story’s impact on their lives. Engagement involves actively listening, taking feedback seriously, acting upon it, and repeating this cycle. It’s about building a relationship and understanding your role as a journalist.
Francesca (10:33):
It’s a feedback loop, consistent listening, and asking the right questions. What are your goals in audience engagement strategy?
Gerson (10:51):
Primarily, it’s about building trust: trustworthiness, transparency, and easy accessibility. Viewers should know they can easily reach us with any question and receive a response from real journalists, not a chatbot.
Francesca (11:28):
How do you measure trust?
Gerson (11:33):
It’s challenging. We conduct semi-annual surveys (2,500 audience members) measuring trust and importance factors. We’ve seen trust increase (from ~70% to ~85-86%). The main reason cited is our accessibility and responsiveness.
Francesca (13:02):
What are the biggest hurdles preventing better engagement?
Gerson (13:12):
Cost is one. Our team of seven editors requires significant funding. However, starting smaller is possible. Another hurdle is the fear of negative comments. We surprisingly receive few hate comments, likely because real people are on the other side of the conversation. Journalists sometimes fear the impact of audience feedback on their work, but often, audience questions mirror the journalist’s own inquiries, enriching the story.
Francesca (16:54):
You mentioned cost. You have seven journalists, but you suggested starting smaller. What advice would you give to someone starting out?
Gerson (17:24):
Every journalist should be responsible for their own feedback. This fosters better story creation and understanding audience engagement. It’s about embedding this into workflow and utilizing feedback for improvement.
Francesca (19:30):
How do you foster this cultural shift?
Gerson (19:52):
It’s a mindset shift. Be aware of responses (public, social media, emails) and engage with the feedback. Discuss responses and adapt accordingly. It’s a continuous learning process, not something achieved through a single course.
Francesca (21:06):
What strategies have worked best for you?
Gerson (21:16):
It’s not just about listening; it’s about showing how you utilize that feedback. We answer every question, finding experts when necessary. When multiple people ask similar questions or identify missing perspectives, we address them; this shows we value their input and act upon it.
Francesca (23:47):
How do you communicate with your audience?
Gerson (24:02):
Primarily through our chat during broadcasts, often involving guests or on-air journalists. We also have a weekly newsletter summarizing feedback and articles addressing common questions. We’ve also done focus groups to better understand audience needs, particularly with younger demographics.
Francesca (25:45):
You mentioned a focus group with younger viewers. What did you learn?
Gerson (26:01):
Approachability and human connection were key. Younger audiences are accustomed to interactive social media engagement, expecting responses. However, they often trust algorithms more than traditional media, making it crucial to reach them through their preferred platforms.
Francesca (28:41):
Can you share examples of successful initiatives boosting audience engagement?
Gerson (28:49):
We covered a law (WIA) concerning disability support. Initially, we directed viewers to our chat for questions, but it was overwhelming. We switched to an online form and received over 1000 responses, building a database of experiences for future stories. This changed how we engage.
Francesca (32:17):
Are your viewers aware of their direct interaction with editorial teams?
Gerson (32:17):
We’re improving communication. We recently decided to explicitly mention that editors are responding in the chat, not just a general team.
Francesca (33:35):
Any surprising moments?
Gerson (34:03):
We were surprised by the volume of responses on certain topics, even those not covered in broadcasts (solar panels, pensions). Post-election analysis showed that the chat reflected sentiments indicating the surprising political shift. We were initially blind to it.
Francesca (36:41):
What’s the role of technology (AI, data analytics) in audience engagement?
Gerson (37:22):
AI tools like ChatGPT pose a threat, potentially diminishing the need to interact directly with news sources. However, it also emphasizes the importance of fostering audience trust and relationships so people choose human connection over AI responses. This strengthens loyalty.
Francesca (39:33):
What’s your vision for audience engagement in the next few years?
Gerson (40:56):
I see a shift toward a more human-centric approach to journalism, moving beyond just reporting the news to also guiding the audience through the complexities of issues. This necessitates better understanding and connection with the audience.
Francesca (43:24):
What skills should young journalists focus on?
Gerson (43:54):
Active listening. Many young journalists need more experience interacting directly with audiences. Also, learning to ask one clear, focused question at a time during interviews is crucial.
Francesca (45:04):
What impact has increased engagement had on your organization’s bottom line and brand loyalty?
Gerson (45:33):
Measuring direct impact is difficult, but we’ve seen changes within the newsroom: greater openness to audience-suggested topics, increased awareness of audience response, and a shift towards more audience-centric journalistic approaches.
Francesca (48:05):
One final engagement hack for those starting out?
Gerson (48:27):
Start small and experiment. Ask a single question, try different platforms, and observe. Don’t overplan; just begin and learn from your experience.
Francesca (49:17):
Thank you, Gerson!
Gerson (49:22):
You’re welcome! Any feedback is welcome—we’re still learning.