The evolving mission of journalism – “I think to me it’s about expanding what is the usual definition of the mission of journalism that we are used to.”
This week on Redefining Engagement, we had a fascinating conversation with Mattia, Knight Fellow with ICFJ, about rethinking audience engagement in journalism. Mattia challenges the conventional metrics-driven approach, urging a shift towards a more ethical and impactful model and his approach was truly thought provoking.
He proposes that journalism should not only inform but also empower audiences to take action and participate in shaping their communities.
If you are too busy or not a big fan of watching recordings, here is a slightly edited transcript that you can browse through at your convenience:
Francesca Dumas – Contribly (00:29): Hi Mattia, thanks for joining me! I’m excited to discuss engagement, especially your unique perspective on it. Let’s start with an introduction. Tell us about your background.
Mattia Peretti (00:52): Lovely to meet you! I’m Mattia, Italian, based in London (Somerset House). This year, I’m a Knight Fellow with ICFJ (International Center for Journalists). My career focuses on journalism innovation, though I haven’t worked in a traditional newsroom. I’ve worked with journalism support organisations and educational institutions, helping journalists improve their work and introduce innovative approaches.
Francesca (01:42): We’ve discussed imposter syndrome. You do fascinating work, despite not being a journalist. Can you elaborate?
Mattia (01:58): I appreciate you saying that! I think it stems from wanting to be a journalist when younger, but my career path took a different (and fulfilling) turn. I work with journalists and organisations, learning from them and hopefully representing their experiences fairly. Much of my work isn’t based on direct experience. For instance, I’ve never created an audience engagement strategy for a news organisation.
Francesca (03:12): You speak at many events. Has anyone ever challenged your perspective?
Mattia (03:17): No, it’s all in my head – that’s the imposter syndrome trick!
Francesca (03:23): I feel it too! Let’s talk about engagement. What’s your definition?
Mattia (03:36): That’s problematic! I don’t have a rigid definition, and audience engagement isn’t my sole focus. I’m concerned that our industry often views engagement extractively. Engagement should be a byproduct of serving people and society—informing, connecting. LinkedIn posts sometimes focus solely on subscriber retention and avoiding churn, neglecting the audience we serve. It’s a matter of definitions and how we use words—we manifest reality through language. It’s important to state that we want engagement to serve people, not just for engagement’s sake.
Francesca (05:30): You mentioned journalism’s mission. Do you think everyone shares the same mission, and what should it be?
Mattia (05:47): That’s what I’ve been pondering all year! Journalism isn’t monolithic; there are many differences. I’m talking about an aspirational mission—what journalism should aim for. It’s surprisingly hard to find a universally agreed-upon definition. We often say journalism informs society so people can make informed decisions, like voting. That’s true, but it’s insufficient today. Information alone is useless without helping people understand how to act upon it, beyond just voting. We need to expand the mission to encompass helping people take action.
Francesca (07:31): We discuss this internally. What if the audience defined engagement?
Mattia (08:08): It’s partly happening already! Some projects are exploring this, building different audience relationships—it’s not just “we create, you consume.” There’s been interesting development in expanding journalism’s mission and definition—it’s not just about content we produce. Content is a vehicle, journalism is more than that. We need to be conveners, community organizers, actively engaging audiences beyond passive consumption.
Francesca (09:49): Tell us about News Alchemists.
Mattia (09:54): News Alchemists is a project I’m developing. I’m seeking funding to turn it into an industry initiative. The core idea is to bring together smart people to articulate how journalism is changing and how we can make it more people-centered. Many good ideas exist, but they’re fragmented. We need a formula to bring these new approaches into the mainstream. News Alchemists is about articulating this vision and helping the industry make this transition.
Francesca (12:00): It’s a massive mission—a marketing problem for the industry. In this user-centric ideal, how would you measure success?
Mattia (12:59): That’s crucial! Journalism success is usually measured by engagement and profit, but that’s insufficient. We need new ways to define and measure success—value creation. How do we quantify value? We can ask audiences directly—what value do we create? What do they need? One first step is bringing together industry and outside voices to figure out new measurement methods.
Francesca (14:43): Anyone listening who wants to fund this – it’s key to the industry’s future! Measurement removes so much from our work.
Mattia (15:03): Yes, not everything can be measured. If we optimize only for measurable things, we ignore crucial unmeasurable aspects. We need balanced metrics.
Francesca (15:58): What are the aims of audience engagement? You mentioned bringing value to people’s lives. Anything else?
Mattia (16:18): Defining “value” is key. Impact is often mentioned—major societal changes from investigative journalism. That’s important, but value is broader. It can be providing interesting information sparking conversation. We need to balance grand impact with smaller, everyday value. A friend talks about a “net positive news experience”—acknowledging that much news is negative, but aiming for a positive overall experience.
Francesca (18:28): Net positive—we often say this. What hurdles prevent news brands from better engagement?
Mattia (19:23): It’s complex—habit, systemic change is difficult. The industry has been in crisis (or what we call a crisis) for decades. It’s hard to change significantly when facing daily pressures and job losses. Success shouldn’t be measured by the number of journalism jobs; what if we could create more value with fewer jobs? We need strategic leadership to embrace change, understanding it’s vital for both individual organizations and the entire ecosystem.
Francesca (22:07): It’s hard to plan long-term. What effective audience engagement strategies have you seen?
Mattia (22:19): I’ll answer as an audience member. Il Post (an Italian digital-only news organization) does things differently. They build a conversational relationship with the audience. They have a daily newsletter sharing team discussions, even screenshots of internal Slack communications. This humanizes them, building a sense of connection. Their membership program is their biggest revenue source, demonstrating that engagement fosters loyalty and support. It’s authentic.
Francesca (25:21): How did you discover Il Post? How did they grow?
Mattia (25:57): Word of mouth, I think! A friend introduced me. I introduced my parents. Their moderated comments section is also very valuable—people often express appreciation and even subscribe as a result of the discussions.
Francesca (28:30): They show transparency. Young people seek authenticity and transparency.
Mattia (29:01): It’s interesting. Many Il Post articles lack bylines, yet the newsletter builds personal connections. They also have a quarterly magazine with bylines. It’s a mix, but it fosters a sense of knowing the people behind the journalism.
Francesca (30:16): Examples of audience interaction with editorial teams that surprised you?
Mattia (30:59): At the Online News Association conference, digital-only organizations discussed conversational journalism (on WhatsApp, etc.). Documented (focuses on immigrants) and URL Media use this to provide direct service, answering questions and offering help beyond creating articles. Conecta Arizona started with WhatsApp during COVID, countering misinformation, and grew into a news organization.
Francesca (33:56): Let’s discuss tech’s role in engagement.
Mattia (34:33): I’m not an AI skeptic. Tools that improve efficiency and audience understanding are welcome, but we need strategy. I worry about jumping on new tech without a plan. There are positive examples—initiatives helping organizations use AI to better understand audience interactions, making smarter decisions based on data insights. But strategy and a clear understanding of trade-offs are crucial; it’s not just about the latest cool tool.
Francesca (36:53): Those trade-offs include trust. Are there brands integrating AI correctly?
Mattia (37:37): Many do it well. A report by Swedish publishers (Nordic AI Journalism Network) explores transparency around AI. It emphasises thoughtful transparency, not just superficial disclosures. True transparency builds trust.
Francesca (39:25): Is transparency a pitfall in audience engagement?
Mattia (39:47): Yes, it is if we forget that engagement is a means to an end—creating value. If we focus solely on engagement, we unintentionally optimize for the wrong things.
Francesca (40:26): What’s your vision for audience engagement in 5-10 years?
Mattia (40:59): We need to move beyond mindless content creation. We need to embrace the fact that audience needs have changed and adapt. We must become more relational and break down barriers between news organisations and the audience. Good practices need wider adoption. An article I recently read summarised nine ways news media are trying to foster closer ties with audiences (it was 60 years old!)—we’re still struggling to fully embrace this.
Francesca (43:31): What individual skills should we focus on?
Mattia (44:15): Creating spaces for conversation and reflection is crucial. News Alchemists, for example, provides a platform for deep conversations. Even without collaborative projects, the act of talking, reflecting, and realizing shared challenges and opportunities is valuable.
Francesca (45:55): We need time for reflection.
Mattia (46:37): Yes!
Francesca (46:46): Engagement hack for a team?
Mattia (47:22): Have a team conversation (outside the newsroom!) about why you do journalism. Articulate the positive societal change you aim to create.
Francesca (48:03): Thank you, Mattia! I hope you get the funding you need.
Mattia (48:22): Thank you for the great conversation!